Getting to Know Natalia Calviño, Newest Member of the ILC
By Jocelyn Jacks Kahn
“It is so important to be the kind of interaction that makes things different” - Natalia Calviño
I had the pleasure of interviewing the newest member of the International Leadership Council (ILC), Natalia Calviño (who likes to be called Naty). Naty, who is from Argentina, is a Focusing Trainer and Coordinator as well as a Focusing-Oriented Therapist. What one cannot help noticing in her presence – even through Zoom – is how her whole being radiates with her passion for life! I’m delighted to share some highlights from our conversation.
Jocelyn: How did you originally discover Focusing, Naty?
Naty: That's a wonderful and long story, because I've been searching for different things ever since I can remember. And the underlying search was always: "There has to be something MORE going on about this world...” Because to me, this world of concepts, of things, and of things happening that maybe weren’t the happiest gave rise to naturally knowing there had to be MORE.
And so, I searched in various ways – different journeys and types of spirituality, different kinds of religions and things, reading about spiritual people, and so on.
Then in 2016, when I was in my second year and about to get my degree as a counselor, I was asked to be an interpreter for Ann Weiser Cornell and Barbara McGavin, who were coming to Argentina to teach a workshop.
I live in Buenos Aires, and they were coming here to do their “Treasure Maps to the Soul” retreat. I had never even heard the word “Focusing” before. I had the privilege of being chosen to interpret for Barbara (there was somebody else interpreting for Ann).
I remember that, at one point, Ann and Barbara were doing a demo and Barbara was the Focuser. It was in-person and I was behind her. I could see that Barbara was going inside herself, and I was sitting very near her and could just feel into the whole process. Of course, I was not feeling what she was feeling but I could feel something going on there.
And I said, "Wow, this is amazing!"
Then I got into the flow of Focusing and began to understand what it was. When I began to be in contact and to allow for a felt sense to form, I said, "Ohhhhhhh... This is what I've been looking for in so many different places: this MORE!” As I say this now, it brings goosebumps – this quality of feeling connected to myself, with myself. And also feeling this connection with everything else – with the Earth, with the sky, with nature, with being.
So for me, Focusing is really about that.
“Focusing” is just a word. Of course, Gendlin gave us this word. But to me, the words would be: Deep, deep, deep connection, inside and outside (if inside and outside are even different) – because we are interaction, and it is body/environment interaction. So, it's just logical that when we are connected with ourselves, we connect with everything else – and with all of that, with all the MORE....
I'm participating in two groups with A Process Model and the other exploring Experiencing and the Creation of Meaning. In one of them, we were reading something about "the excess": the excess that comes with the experiencing, the MORE and the excess. So, it was a new word for the MORE: the excess. Yes, that idea, the MORE. I love it!
Jocelyn: You are a Focusing-Oriented Therapist, a Focusing Trainer and a Coordinator. Tell us a little more about your journey to becoming a Coordinator.
Naty: It comes from the same deep passion for all of this. Because once I understood that this existed, it’s like Gene says: he found out that what clients did that made them successful in therapy was this connecting, going inside, and allowing for a felt sense to form – and then he came up with the steps to teach people that didn't do this naturally, and to transmit it to other people.
So, in a way – I'm not saying this is the same process as Gene's – but what made me want to be, first, a Focusing Trainer, was to be able to put this out more into the world, to teach people… to do more than teach, to show people that this is a possibility, and to show them how it can be done.
I started very early to become a Focusing Trainer. The person who I first did Focusing with is a Coordinator from Buenos Aires, Monica Pérez Iturraspe, whom I'm so grateful to. She had a wonderful and heartfelt way of guiding me through the process of incorporating Focusing. She introduced me to the Philosophy of the Implicit, which I loved, and then I started teaching with her.
That's when I got so much experience about how to teach and how to transmit this in the best possible way. But as a Focusing Trainer, I couldn't do the whole certification process. And I really wanted to do that, to offer that freely and to start doing it more my own way.
That's when I decided, “Oh, I really want to become a Coordinator!” And of course, I'm always interested in whatever activity brings Focusing to more of the world. I'm passionate about that.
I'm also interested in bringing Focusing to more of the Spanish-speaking world. Sometimes it's so much easier for people who speak English, because most of the activities are in English. I do know TIFI does a lot to open up spaces for non-English speakers.
But it's not only about the language; it's about the culture also. I have this passion for that, too. That is the reason why I offer myself as a translator at different events for TIFI: in the Weeklong and various conferences.
I would love to make A Process Model available to Spanish speakers, but the more I understand it, the more I know how difficult it is to translate. In fact, I did begin translating it, but for the moment I have stopped. There is still so much I need to really grasp, and the more I go into it, the more I realize the difficulty of finding precise words in Spanish (in this case) for what Gene meant. I feel I would need to have Gene beside me to ask him what he meant about some things very specifically in order to be able to translate them properly.
There is a Spanish translation done by Edgardo Riveros. It makes so much sense that he calls his translation Paraphrasing Eugene Gendlin – and I realize how huge that must have been. I have deep admiration for what Edgardo did. Still, one of my dreams is to be able to translate it into Spanish myself.
Jocelyn: I'd also like to step back a bit. When you say I want to teach more "my way" – perhaps you can say more about "your way."
Naty: Yes. Because I do believe that we all have our own individuality and uniqueness. And so the things that really resonate with me are the things that I most want to transmit.
I've also had my own way of integrating all these Focusing processes. I find it easier to teach in the way I found easiest for me when I was learning. And because it makes sense for me, I find it's more helpful and practical for others. Somebody else's program may be wonderful – it's not about comparing – but it doesn't have my own imprint.
Jocelyn: What is it that made learning Focusing easier for you?
Naty: There was something in my own essence and nature that was looking for this body/environment interaction. So now that I have gone more into A Process Model and Gene's other works, I know that we are this body/environment interaction, but I was not able to put it into words that make sense. However, when I began to do Focusing with myself, I found, "Oh yes! This is the place where I feel this deep connection with life.”
So that was my way of experiencing it. More than following the steps – which I find are very useful and of course I do teach them –it was something like when I found and realized, "Oh! Okay, this is it. It's that!" When I had the experience of the felt sense forming for the very first time, I said, "Oh, okay, I need to have this, the experience of it."
One of the things that I emphasize in the way I teach is that it's about having the experience. It's very experiential. Also, I like saying something about Gendlin's philosophy, which is not always taught. There are many, many trainings in Focusing that don't go much, if at all, into that philosophy, and I feel that's something that is important for me.
Jocelyn: I’d like to go back to this question of culture. You say that bringing Focusing to Spanish-speaking cultures is not simply about acting as a translator, but also about the culture. What cultural issues have you noticed?
Naty: Yes. For a fact, I know that there's something like the supremacy of North American things or American things, or something like that. Not only American – I was myself brought up and educated in an English school here in Buenos Aires, and it was all about everything from England or from Europe being better, more fashionable.
I think there is something about that – and not only in Argentina, but in Latin America in general, and of course in other countries as well. However, I'm speaking specifically of Spanish-speaking countries or places, and there's something about that. It's like other cultures seem to be superior and we were taught to look up to them.
This still exists, though not in such a powerful way. We have come a long way. But there is still something about that feeling that everything from outside is better.
At the same time, I'm very aware that TIFI has this wonderful way of spreading out into the whole world. The thing is, it's not just about TIFI; it's about our cultures that experience this difference as well.
And also, as I touched on earlier, there are many Focusing books and articles by Gendlin that haven't been translated into Spanish. People who want to really get into the philosophy but who don't speak English do not have the same access as a person who does speak English.
I'm aware that with other cultures, it's the same thing. Every other country that speaks another language besides English has this certain kind of limitation.
Jocelyn: So Naty, I'm wondering how you came to be involved in the ILC.
Naty: One day a member of the Nominating Committee told me that my name had come up, and that they would like to nominate me, and I said, "Yes – Absolutely!"
Jocelyn: And so over and above these fundamental cultural issues, what other issues are you aware of that you would like to address? (I do realize that you are very new to the ILC.)
Naty: The ILC work is for the good of the whole of TIFI, the Focusing community, and the spreading of Focusing - things that are very dear and valuable to me.
Of course, the members of the ILC represent different parts of the world, so it only makes sense that we would want to do more to make Focusing more available to people from every part of the world, speaking any kind of language.
Being on the ILC is very fresh and new for me and I hadn't expected to be offered this position, so I'm taking very, very tiny steps.
But I would like to clarify that this language issue is not the only thing I'm interested in. In fact, what I'm doing right now is mainly something for therapists. I'm offering a course to become Focusing-Oriented Therapists, which is something that I'm also very passionate about. And I'm not even doing it in Spanish; I'm doing it in English because I have some English-speaking clients who were already therapists, and they wanted to become FOTs. (I’ve previously done it in Spanish for a long time and will continue doing so, but it just happened that at the moment there were not enough Spanish-speaking people interested in the course.) I’m interested in doing it in whatever language helps bring FOT forward!
I think that Focusing-Oriented Therapy is so enriching for people and makes such a difference in bringing their lives forward, so I don't want what I've been saying to make it seem like I'm only interested in the Spanish-speaking world.
I'm interested in bringing Focusing out in so many different ways. Particularly in therapy, because I've known a number of different kinds of therapies and therapeutic processes, and I think that integrating Focusing into therapy is something that is so very useful.
Jocelyn: Essentially, you seem passionate about LIFE! And how effective Focusing is in enriching and deepening it.
Naty: Yes! I always have this feeling that there's so much that can be done – and I don't know exactly what.
I was part of the planning committee for the FOT Conference that had to do with how to bring Focusing-Oriented Therapy more out into the world – that was a big topic. We organized workshops and presentations about that, as well as a whole panel about how to make it more visible – so this is a huge thing. This is something that I'm always thinking about, always wanting to figure out: how to do more, how to bring it out there into the world more.
I don't have the answer. At least, though, I am taking my tiny steps toward bringing Focusing out into the world more.
We can continue to think about it more, sense into it more and feel into it more. I have so many groups and so many things I'm involved in with Focusing, so that's always here for me.
As an example: I was visiting my son in Tulum in Mexico. Before going, I asked him, "Could I plan some sort of get together with your friends at the beach, or something where I can speak about Focusing and let them know about it?" And he said, "Well, let me see," because he works in one of the beach clubs there at a Wellness Center. After thinking, he said, "Okay, write something about what it is, and then send it to [the Wellness Center] - they might want you to do a workshop there." So, I did that. Even going on holiday, I want to speak about Focusing!
Even now, I'm planning for a trip this weekend, and we're going by car and taking our bicycles. But apparently, it's going to rain and we might not be able to cycle much. The person organizing it said, "Okay, we must have a Plan B, so let's think of other activities." And I said, "I can offer something!"
Jocelyn: It sounds like your "tiny steps" to move Focusing forward are already filling up the world around you!
Naty: I hope so.
There's something else I'd like to mention about why I think FOT is so important.
It's like getting to this safe place that Focusing makes it easier to get to. Because there's this Clearing a Space and then the attitude of the person who listens, or the therapist. This is something that is so important, to be able to be the kind of interaction that makes things different.
So for me, there are two especially important qualities of Focusing.
One is the gentleness of Focusing. This gentleness makes it possible for people to get into whatever is there. People are sometimes very afraid or very traumatized. They are very afraid of connecting because disconnecting is what helped them survive.
And this gentleness, in turn, creates the possibility for the other most important quality of Focusing: the deep connection that I was speaking about at the beginning.
These are two of the most important things about Focusing.
Jocelyn: I love the way you said earlier that Focusing teaches you to be the interaction that makes this gentleness and deep connection possible.
Naty: Yes. Something about the being. Before Focusing, I was doing counseling and the person-centered approach. I read a lot about Carl Rogers, and there's a book that he wrote called A Way of Being. That's the name of the book! That reflects a lot of what I think Focusing is. It's not only part of therapy or a technique that you can use to blah, blah, blah... It's a way of being – a way of being with others, of listening to others. It’s a way of being with oneself, with the world, with the universe, with everything.
Jocelyn Jacks Kahn is a certified Focusing Trainer in the traditions of Inner Relationship Focusing and Relational Wholebody Focusing. She is also certified as a meditation teacher in Judith Blackstone’s Realization Process, a spiritual practice of embodied nonduality.